BatPony
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Post by BatPony on May 28, 2013 22:06:05 GMT
 Bat-winged ponies actually aren't new to My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic, but we know so little about them. Recently I have been outlining and writing a "fanfiction" series regarding My Little Pony which involves bat-winged ponies, or thestrals, as a sort of fifth pony race. Some may perceive them as visually modified pegasi, but for the purposes of my writing, I decided to augment them from pegasi with some notable differences. This advances them beyond a mere cosmetic alternative. As such, my proposition is to dub bat-winged ponies as their own race. Before I get into my proposed augments, I'd like to get through naming. Bat-winged ponies is more a description than a moniker. I'd like to use the term "thestrals", which is popularly a nod to J. K. Rowling's series, but also rooted in obscure Celtic lore and myth. Unfortunately, I have been unable to dredge up a proper online source regarding this origin, much to my own chagrin. Alternatively, they have been referred to as "kestrels", which can be confused with a type of bird. Hence, I prefer "thestral". Thestrals can fly, like pegasi, and so it is to pegasi that I draw much of my comparisons. Most of these contrasts can be moot, of course, based on the principle that not all earth ponies are built the same. Some are faster than others, and some stronger. Therefore any inherent abilities are naturally prone to variability by individual. - Thestrals tend to be nocturnal.
- Thestrals cannot manipulate weather, although they can contribute wing power due to their physical motion.
- Thestrals have somewhat superior dark vision and hearing.
- Thestrals tend not to fly as high or as fast as pegasi.
I hope this can be deemed acceptable.
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Post by Princess Luna on May 31, 2013 22:23:11 GMT
Aproved  |
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Post by Soarin Skies on May 31, 2013 22:28:45 GMT
Approved  |
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Post by Noxis on May 31, 2013 22:33:16 GMT
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BatPony
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Nana nana nana nana batmare~
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Post by BatPony on May 31, 2013 22:43:49 GMT
Thank you muchly. :3
A question occurred to me tonight. Could thestrals walk on clouds? I believe my initial design was that they couldn't, so I'll have to stick with this technicality. I have a feeling that a pegasus' ability to walk on clouds is inexorably linked with their ability to manipulate the weather. Therefore, it is not my intention that thestrals can walk on clouds. It's too bad, since it could have diversified populations in pegasus cities, but them's the breaks. Perhaps this is one reason thestrals are somewhat exotic or seclusionary; perhaps they feel culturally that they are far removed from the other pony tribes. They can't inhabit cloud cities, and their flight makes earthbound dwellings a tad restrictive. I can envision them finding high mountainous peaks as a kind of happy medium between them both. This enables them to reside in dark caverns during the day where their flight allows them to bypass the demerits of treacherous terrain whilst simultaneously reaping its defensive benefits. Flying monsters might still be a problem, though, but I feel I digress (In fact, if I revise this again, I'll make this a separate paragraph).
As I've seen on the show, much of weather manipulation revolves around the physical influence of clouds with the control of dexterity pegasi can perform. Flailing about helplessly may disperse gases for us humans, but I'd imagine that's about it for the other races. I'm not about to take that away from pegasi. No weather manipulation, no cloud naps. So yeah, that's a bummer, but thestrals will have to find some other high perch to doze off. At least, this is all my initial interpretation.
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Post by Nocturnias on Jun 3, 2013 12:53:31 GMT
I really do like this idea and have taken to it with a passion in creating a new character. I've become so engrossed in the possibility of it, that I've began thinking of various different things that could be taken into account with this species. These are all my own opinions here, so take what you will from it. I don't know if this is out of turn for me to do this, but I just wanted to maybe throw out my thoughts.
Basically, I wanted to maybe hit on what could be some key differences between Ponies and Thestrals. More accurately, Thestrals and Pegasi, to which they are so compared to. Going off your initial thoughts of them, I'm going to hit on a lot of the same points, but also try to expand some. Again, this is speculator.
I. Thestrals can not manipulate the weather, nor can they walk on clouds. I like this idea a lot as it gives a good bit of a difference between the two species which can also have a lot of historical significance. I always head cannoned that Pegasi were outright given the ability to manipulate the weather, it became their niche in the greater scheme of Equestria. It is an over arching role to the sub-species and it clearly outlines a lot of their culture and profession choices. I like to think that Thestrals are not an off shoot of Pegasi, but their own species, clearly similar but lacking the key element in that they were not given the ability to interact with the weather. It was not their job to manipulate and contribute to it. Given that the job of making sure it rains one day and snows the next, Pegasi inherit the magic that would best help them with their job: being able to walk on said clouds. Thestrals lack the origin and the reason, so they can do neither.
II. Flight For this, I'd like to compare the flight patterns and abilities in birds and contrast them with bats. Pegasi (birds) have feathers, which allows for greater altitude and durability. They can soar and maintain speed over duration. The feathers and the bone structure of the wing are very important in avians and I feel it would be the same with a Pegasus. They flap the entire limb to generate their lift. As such there is typically more power and durability there. Bats (Thestrals) on the other hand, lack feathers and make up for it with a relatively short limb with very long "fingers", with webbing between them. This means that a bat has a very different way of flying, relying on quick upward strokes for lift. It would make sense that they could not fly nearly as high as a Pegasus, or maybe even as long as one. A nice juggle of ability could come from this. Like you said, it could vary from pony to pony, but perhaps a large common observation is that Pegasi tend to be able to fly higher, longer and can generate more power on an average. Thestrals would probably be like bats in the regard to their abilities. Being very quick and very agile when they fly (much like a humming bird.) but suffering from exhaustion over long flights and the inability to make it to the heights a Pegasus could achieve. So in basic: Pegasi would win in a marathon, a Thestral would kill in a obstacle course.
III. Thestral Abilities/Biology. I like to think that Thestrals again have many similarities with bats (for obvious reasons.) Most of this is just a retread of what you had said so they don't beg going over again. Enhanced nocturnal vision and impeccable hearing. I'm not going to submit that they have precise echo location, but perhaps their hearing is very developed. I think it would go without mention that they prefer nocturnal schedules, both as a biological trait and a cultural trait. (More of that below.) I like to think they, on average, share a similar size and shape pattern to Pegasi, needing to be light weight to achieve flight. Only lacking the larger, more powerful wings. I'm not sure on eating habits, but I've entertained the thought that they lack the digestive abilities to eat things like grass and hay. Preferring fruits and vegetables. I would assume that, given that they are in essence ponies, that the same mating habits and reproduction laws are the same and interbreeding, though rare, could more than likely occur. All speculation.
IV. Cultural and Historical significance. The real meat of what I wanted to perhaps contribute here. (Just in thought, this is your baby, you take from these ramblings what you will.) Anyways. I've not thought of a possible kingdom or anything of that nature, or the exact origins of the species. My thought pertained to who they are as a species of Equestria and why they may be viewed as different. Rewinding the clock to before the fall of Princess Luna, I'd like to think that Thestrals revered Princess Luna and her nights. They showed adoration and love for her, as the night hours would of been their niche. The downside being, they were the only denizens to feel that way and were just not as large a population as the greater pony one. Princess Luna still wished for love and adoration from her other subjects and her despair finally gave birth to Nightmare Moon. The Thestrals could of joined their Princess and with her, waged civil war on Equestria. For how long, who knows. Ultimately though, they lost with the banishment of Princess Luna. Celestia, being benevolent as she is, probably saw the Thestrals in a sympathetic light. She exiled them to the mountainous regions of Equestria for their safety, fearing that the bitterness between the Ponies and Thestrals could account for more violence in the near future so soon after a war.
Given the amount of time that has transpired since then, I would imagine that all of that bitterness has pretty much gone away. Thestrals, while not interacting that much with Pony civilization, are probably known about. They are an exotic race that few come into contact with, fearing bias. With the return of Princess Luna, and her integration back into the lives of Ponykind, so too could the return of Thestrals to Equestria be underway. Being embraced once again and redeeming their kind in the eyes of the other pony species.
At least, that's what I had thought about. Take a read, tell me if any of this is worth keeping.
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BatPony
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Post by BatPony on Jun 3, 2013 16:31:24 GMT
This sounds like an excellent in-depth observation building upon exactly the sort of thinking I'd been working with. I like the technical aspects of the flight you've taken into consideration. While I rendered my proposition very succinct bullet points, your text above is precisely the background I'd been inferring from, so kudos to laying it all out on the line.
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Post by Nocturnias on Jun 9, 2013 6:56:10 GMT
Thank you. I've been meaning to possibly delve into a description of Thetral culture/society and their place in Equestria past and present, if I could. Would you be okay with that? They would all be opinions, of course.
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BatPony
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Post by BatPony on Jun 9, 2013 15:50:00 GMT
Sure. I wanted to leave that stuff open. In the Crystal Empire series I'm currently working on writing, thestrals were actually present as members of Sombra's elite imperial guard (though still a minority). I've yet to divulge any further information than that, as I'm still working on the story.  This is a screenshot from the episode "May the Best Pet Win". According to the image above, owls, wasps and toucans can also perch on clouds. In fact, I believe that the show's canon establishes any flying creature as capable of perching on clouds. We have also seen that griffins (specifically Gilda in "Griffin the Brush Off") can walk on clouds as well. For these reasons, I feel that I must retcon my earlier decision that thestrals could not interact with clouds. This puts me in a precarious position for other aforementioned statements: I don't want to take away the pegasi's affinity for weather manipulation. This is why I feel we cannot undervalue the inherent cultural aspects of this multi-faceted society. On the televised canon, weather manipulation has always been a task for the pegasi. Even the griffins were not represented as partaking of this: At least not in Cloudsdale. There are still implied differences between pegasi and thestrals as covered above. I do not wish to supplant pegasi in any way. I think we can solve these issues if we think outwards rather than inwards. Perhaps in griffin settlements, either the griffins take care of weather themselves, or they simply don't care. They may have completely different approaches to weather control: Something more aggressive and far more necessary rather than careful, endearing or sensible. Pegasi manipulate the weather as a service for the earthbound earth ponies and unicorns. We should not underrate that if thestrals were to affect the weather, they would still be very insular in this regard. I'm not saying they can't lack a knack for it where the pegasi have flair. This is all speculative, mind you, but I feel these are key differences we could embrace to enrich our "fanon" as it were. In the case of flying non-pony animals, I would suggest they lack the knowledge about weather control. TL;DR: Flying creatures, as displayed in televised canon, can act as a physical force upon clouds. Clouds can support their weight. I propose that because thestrals are flying creatures, they also can stand upon and move clouds. My counter-proposal is that pegasi still excel at the task of weather control over other flying species. Thestrals would take care of this in their own need as they see fit, are typically very insular and isolated, and thus far may be primarily cave-dwellers and thus care little for the weather of the outdoors. |
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